I'm in charge of purchasing a piece of lab equipment that will cost ~$10,000. I'm the only one in lab who has extensive experience with this piece of equipment, but it will primarily be used by techs to do some of the more tedious work of the lab.
We are demoing models from two companies. Both models are quite nice and seem to do the job just fine. There is hardly any price difference between them.
However, Company A also sells a nicer model with some bells and whistles. We are demoing that as well. I didn't think we would want it because it is an extra $1500, and because I am by nature suspicious that "extra bells and whistles" eventually means "extra reasons to call for repair." The bells certainly improve the instrument function, but not by an extra $1500 plus likely increased repair costs if needed.
The rep from Company A just emailed me to say that she could give me a quote on the actual demo model of the Fancy Version. It clocked in at $9000, a solid $1000 cheaper than either of the regular models and nearly $2500 cheaper than this model would normally cost.
To recap, the options are thus:
Company A, normal machine: $10K
Company B, normal machine: $10K
Company A, Fancy Used machine: $9K
Apparently the service contract is only 6 months with the used vs 1 year with the new machine, but these things never break in the first year anyhow.
So, dear readers: how do I evaluate the worth of a piece of used/demo equipment? The offer is tempting to me, but I am going to kick myself in the head if the Used Fancy machine ends up breaking a lot due to wear and tear. The machine looks pretty nice, nothing is obviously amiss with it, and it is not a very complicated machine to begin with--but how should I decide if this is a good deal?
Also, the lab has plenty of $$ so I am probably overthinking this in my pennypinching way, but I'd welcome general thoughts on whether it's worth buying demo equipment or not.
15 years ago
13 comments:
Is there any time lag in purchasing a new piece (versus keeping the used on already up and running in the lab)? Are the experiments time sensitive enough that this might be an advantage of the used equipment? Tough call
It's never really seems to be the cost of repairs to bells & whistles that is the real problem...it's the halting of experiments that occurs when those bells & whistles need to be repaired. Are those additional bells & whistles actually going to make it more likely to need repair--have you talked to anyone else (independent of the company) that has used the fancy model vs. the standard model about this? Also, if the bells & whistles break is the item still functional or does it cause the whole thing to be unusable?
In my research group we have one used instrument that broke 2 weeks before the end of the warranty (1 yr), so we got lucky. On the other hand, we have another used instrument that was purchased 8 months ago and has not yet functioned despite the best efforts of the man who sold it to us. This is obviously not the problem for you if you're already demoing it, but I think in the future I will be in favor of new.
how used is it? I am reluctant to buy used equipment cause you never know how it was treated. And the warranty is less, yes?
We bought a very fancy used piece of equipment - since it was used we could also get a lot more bells and whistles - none of which we will immediately use. On the plus side, at some point, someone may use all these extras. However, the first six months of instrument involved it constantly breaking down, which was painful for halting experiments and overall morale. I lean towards new too.
I'd lean toward new, even if it means less bells and whistles (especially if you don't need them). You never know how the used equipment was treated.
I think the relevant question is how being a demo model would affect performance. Does transproting the machine, setting it up, running a few samples, tearing it down, and transporting again result in equivalvent depreciation as simply running it using many samples? If so, then you're running the risk of it breaking sooner. If not, it could be a good deal. That is, if noone ever "dropped" it.
Have you ever seen how rough is luggage handling at the airports?
How many times the demo machine went through that?
In my opinion, the savings are not compensating the risk (unless the company offers 10 year service contract free of charge with preferential treatment).
Is it optical equipment, electronic equipment, or mechanical equipment? If either of the first two, used is perfectly fine. In fact it is better, because it has already been put through its paces and is not a lemon. If the latter, wear and tear could be an issue.
All that said, unless your PI is telling you that price is an issue, then stop wasting your time and order the best new machine.
I'd say buy the demo, but make sure they give you a year of repairs since it's used ($1000 off is not much of a discount, so they should be willing to add this additional component to your contract).
It is perfectly okay to negotiate for what you want, especially if you're also talking to other companies. You do NOT have to already have a better deal from one of the other companies to get what you want, but it helps.
In my experience, EVERYTHING breaks. Sometimes it's actually better to get the used/demo model because it's more "broken in." That's sort of what it means, actually.
I think it's most important that you trust the service people to come and fix it WHEN (not if) you have a problem, and that you believe the company will stay in business long enough to keep the thing working while you need it (not necessarily a sure thing in this economy).
I'd rather have one that works, bottom line, but more bells and whistles doesn't matter so long as they don't impair the basic functions.
Good design always consists of well-integrated, but independent, modular units that can be replaced separately if need be.
If none of these have that, you'll probably have difficulties no matter which model you get.
I just wish there were more competition for these kinds of devices, because in my experience very few are really well-made and reliable with good service support when needed.
$1000 is peanuts in the grand scheme of lab budgets. I would order new. But YOU have to decide if you want the bells and whistles (nevermind the cost of repairs). If they don't make a big difference, then forget about them. But if you want them, just pay a little extra and get them new!
These are good points. The trouble is that the bells and whistles are integral to the (mechanical) machine's function. So if they break...
Because I've been dragging my feet on this decision, the rep emailed me to say the service contract for the used item could be extended to a year, so score one for slow decision making. But you all are probably right, that 15% off is not enough to make it worthwhile to get used rather than new, since the equipment is mechanical and the lab is flush.
Have to make a decision today--the funny thing is that in a way it's made harder by the fact that I think any decision will be fine, I just need to MAKE one.
I agree w/ CPP.
new w/ bells and whistles + extended service contract = win.
If you offer up getting the spiffy dodad there is chance you can keep the demo machine around until your machine comes (with the person to tear down the demo and put in your new machine). THAT = huge productivity win.
Worrying about an extra $2500 when there are tangible benefits involved is a waste of your valuable time.
Oh, and finally, extended service contract on any mechanical/moving parts equipment = WIN. e.g. an x-ray diffractometer.
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