The gossip
A recently graduated friend had lined up his postdoc with Dr BigShot. After he had signed a year-long lease in BigShot's location, BigShot told him that actually the lab was too full and there was no space for him after all.
The reactions
Graduate student: "Wow, that's really scary. I feel bad for him."
Post-doc [Dr Hyde]: "Jeez, that's terrible. Of course, he should really have gotten the offer in writing, but maybe that felt too awkward to ask for."
Unhappy, disenchanted postdoc: "This is totally proof that the system is broken, because famous PIs can screw over people with no repercussions whatsoever."
A PI: "I don't believe the rumor. I know Dr BigShot quite well and this would never happen."
I do not know which to believe,
The story by the recent grad student,
Or the PI who vouches for Dr BigShot,
The young and naive,
Or the cynicism that comes after.
15 years ago
11 comments:
Don't forget to blame Dr. Big-Shot's institution, which ultimately controls the megal relationship between post-docs and PIs. At my institution, we PIs are not permitted to engage post-docs unless we follow a process in which formal offer letters with terms of the engagement are reviewed by Department business staff, signed by the PI, and then signed by the Department Chair, and then countersigned by the post-doc.
This ensures that PIs don't pull fucked up shit like this, that there are sufficient resources for the post-doc's remuneration, and that post-docs are engaged on terms that are consistent with our intitutional rules.
Although this cabins my freedom as a PI to do whatever the fuck I want, I applaud this system.
Aaugh. "megal" = "legal"
This happened to me as well. After interviewing for several different postdocs, I was invited to interview with Dr.HowardHughesLab. To matters even better, my wife (also looking for a postdoc at the time) landed an interview with Dr.BigLab, also in the same town. I was psyched. So we flew out to DesertTown together and spent 3 days interviewing the labs and being interviewed by them. We both were made offers that blew away the other offers we had already recieved elsewhere in the country. So, of course, we accepted the offers on a hand shake ("the official paperwork will be mailed to you in a week or so"). It had not occured to us that this was a mistake (read:major learning experience). When we returned to MD, we broke the news to our graduate advisors and called the other PI's who were waiting for a decision from us to tell them we had decided to take a position "elsewhere". Everything seems to be going smoothly...
Then, 4 days later my wife receives her contract, etc. Then, the following week I receive a cryptic 4 sentence email from Dr.HowardHughesLab stating that "I was going to do well in my career" but that the offered had to be "reneged since I wasn't a good fit after all". WTF??!?! I of course called, but the receptionist always said Dr.HowardHughes was "out". Luckily Google provided me a way to find the direct phone number to his office from an internal university memo. I just wanted some answers. And yeah.. that was an interesting conversation.
Anyway, this is sort of why we ended up at the NIH. We have a family to support - so we had to scramble to get _something_ set up right away. All the other labs who we interviewed with gave their offers to the next postdocs in line. When we called them back to see if the positions were still available, the PI's nearly all said. "Wow! OK, I'm sorry, but what do you expect me to do - renege on the offers to the postdocs I called after you turned me down?"
Ahhh.. the irony. It was my first major "science is messed up" moment. Sorry for the flood - your post just _really_ struck a chord.
Former unhappy, disenchanted postdoc: I wonder if that pre-postdoc didn't just dodge a bullet...? That lab sounds a bit iffy.
It's not quite clear to me, though, what "get in it writing" would have done. If it's disputed that a real offer was made (and the grad student may well have misunderstood), a written statement would help settle the question and maybe get him in. It sounds like the PI is saying "Yes, there was an offer and no you can't come", so I don't know what a written letter would do.
FWIW, I was "offered" my postdoc in a three sentence email, told the lab when I was showing up, and walked in the door on that day. That was the norm there. Of the various postdocs I interviewed for, I never received a "formal offer letter with terms of the engagement" from anyone. For that matter, when I later applied for staff scientist positions at several genome centers, I never received anything beyond some murky "Sure, we'd love to have you" email.
hm, it is true that the written offer helps. It also helps when you have to break the lease since then you know that "the institute" can be held liable.
Then again, nothing is set in stone until you get "there".
I've recently negotiated with my PI about an extension. I clearly stated that I needed it in writing - so that it doesn't turn like this summer when it's been very loose and unsecure - but am still to get it.
Interesting story nonetheless. True? Most likely.
Just science? nah... not sure actually. Sounds a bit like "big cooperation" would do the same?!
Physio--I kinda like "megal" as "the law as I define it." Which is approximately how this PI appears to be acting.
Good point about institutions--I had no idea any of them did that. My own current postdoc was set up with less than even a handshake...
Jonathan--OUCH. OUCH. OUCH.
CC--it's not like you're going to force the lab to follow through on its promise, but yes, the letter could be used to break the lease perhaps, as chall says. Also, as Physio says, the presence of a letter suggests that more people are involved, which helps reduce the chance that this will happen in the first place.
Lamesauce. However after reading this I giggled to myself that I should hold a PI (who offered me a post-doc via email) to it when I finally get my PhD.
But seriously...that is screwed up that a someone can let you uproot your entire life to work for them and then go 'eh' at the last second with no punishment.
Uh... no offer letter? No contract? Clearly a person who trusts more than myself in the milk of human kindness. Also, poor guy.
My postdoc interviewing experience was like CC's. No formal offers from anyone and certainly no contract. That seemed to be the norm since everyone else who joined the lab after me also had no contracts.
What's worse is the experience of a postdoc I knew when I was a grad student. He had joined another Dr HowardHughesLab on the east coast, his wife had found a residency position at the affiliated hospital, and all was peachy until 6 months into the postdoc, he learned that the whole lab was moving to the west coast. He then found out that the move was in the works while he interviewed for the position, but the PI never said anything. He decided to move with the lab because of his fellowship, but his wife had to stay behind because of her residency program. After a year of trying to make it work, he ended up moving back east and starting over as a postdoc in a brand-new lab. I felt awful for him.
He decided to move with the lab because of his fellowship, but his wife had to stay behind because of her residency program. After a year of trying to make it work, he ended up moving back east and starting over as a postdoc in a brand-new lab. I felt awful for him.
That PI was a jerk for sure, but this post-doc's wife is never gonna let him forget that year. Nor should she. Spending your intern year alone with your husband on the other side of the continent?
I moved after 2 years of grad school because my wife matched to do her residency about 3000 miles from where I had started. In the end it worked out well.
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